My first question – inevitably – was how his interest in rugby began?  

I was at a boarding school – Ipswich School – and enjoyed playing rugby more than anything else. I was very tall – 6ft 4ins – by the time I was 14 and so I had a natural size advantage which helped on the confidence level, although I don’t think I was as good as I like to think I was! But even though rugby was the driver, I quite enjoyed all my time at school. The experience was good from the people management point of view, being head of a house, and having authority which, at that time, included the authority to cane. Perhaps because of that, I became a bit of a pacifist – and when I was head of house I banned myself from beating anyone else. You used to get beaten for the most stupid thing, being late, for example. Looking back, I am almost surprised at my advanced thinking, but, like most boys, I knew I had bullying instincts and I could easily have been a bully, but with rugby you were always getting your head hit, however tall or big you were, and so there seemed no need to throw one’s weight about unnecessarily.

Aside from the influence of your school, which inspired you to play rugby, is there any one person you remember as a role model?  

Probably my mother’s brother, Lieutenant Commander William ‘Bill’ Bailey; he was one of the ‘cockleshell’ heroes, who worked to render German mines safe underwater. And yet despite all he had done in the war, he was very unassuming and so I would consider him a personal role model and somebody with integrity I would like to model my standards on. There was never a cross word, he was always available to help people, he became a successful businessman without any show or pomp and people would follow him.

And despite your longstanding passion for rugby, you made your career in the Royal Navy?  

I didn’t really know what I wanted to do, and had been encouraged by the career master at school to have an interview to join the Navy. The feeling was that one of the best experiences you could have was to go before the Admiralty Interview Board in Gosport. So the real reason why I went for an interview was not because I wanted to join the Navy but to practise my interview technique. When I said as much at my interview, I think they nearly threw me out. Anyway, as I said, being a bit of a pacifist, I had no intention of going anywhere near the military establishment. But then I got a letter to go for a medical examination. In the meantime I had applied for University. I got accepted at Durham, but when I got a letter enclosing a railway ticket from Paddington Station to Dartmouth, saying ‘Be there at 4.30 and don’t be late!’ I felt as though I had been called up and did not know how to say ‘no’! Also one of the reasons that drove me was that my parents had been paying out a lot of money on my education, and if I went to University that would be another 3 years, whereas if I joined the Navy, I would get £7 a week as starting pay. And of course in the Navy I was able to play rugby and cricket and I forgot all about Durham, although I must admit that not having a degree still irritates me, even to this day.

When you were a naval officer, the Navy still had tremendous prestige. Did you feel what you were doing was worthwhile?  

I was a supply officer, what today would be called a logistics officer and so there was less going to sea and a lot more time ashore than a lot of my other contemporaries. I was quite happy for someone else to drive the ship. Like the army, a ship sails on its stomach, and if it doesn’t have services and facilities, housekeeping etc, then it doesn’t function properly. And since a supply officer was between decks, you could feel the pulse of the ship, both in terms of being the Captain’s right hand man, his adviser on discipline and legal welfare and then you also ran the ship below decks. In my case, there wasn’t much choice because I was colour blind. Later I worked in the Ministry of Defence, largely fighting off rounds of defence cuts, fighting to keep the aircraft carrier and for the future of Trident, basically defending the budget against all comers and so I became much more involved in politics. It was also the time of the 1982 Falklands War and the Navy was learning a whole new lesson about how to deal with the press at war and at sea.

But you never made Admiral?  

I carried on in Whitehall until I was 48 years old, with five years seniority as a Captain. The chance of me making Admiral was about 1 in 10. And since I didn’t just want to retire at 53, which is what would have happened if I’d stayed in the Navy, I left and determined to get another career. I was already on the Executive Committee of the Rugby Football Union when the job of Secretary came up. And on the day I got the job, within the space of three weeks, three things happened: firstly, the Chairman of RFU, who was a mentor and good friend, had a heart attack and died. Secondly, an announcement was made that Rugby was now a professional game, and thirdly, the RFU won a five year contract with Sky Television for £87 milion to support English rugby. However it was a very challenging time because it was the time when the Reform Group – led by people from Lancashire and Middlesex – wanted to turn the clock back. I had embraced the new mood of professionalism, and wanted to make it work and these chaps were out there to thwart me doing it . At the same time the RFU was growing richer and the clubs emerged with affluent owners. There was Sir John Hall who owned Newcastle and Ashley Levett who took over Richmond.

It was also the time when Will Carling famously called the Rugby Football Union committee ’57 Old Farts’ – and, after only three years as Secretary of the RFU you quit?  

Yes, there were constant disagreements, which all made very good theatre but it was not very good for the new Chairman and the new Chief Executive. 90 per cent of the country was getting on with new regime, and these guys of the Reform Group were continuing to promote the old school. Within a year they were thrown out, but I had gone to be Chief Executive of Richmond Football Club, owned by Ashley Levett. Looking back, I realise that the time of my involvement with the RFU was very much the birth of today’s rugby, with all the teething and birth pains; all sorts of relationships had to be worked out, for example, the relationship between the national team and professional club players, compensation for injuries, payment of wages. Mine were very much the pioneering days; there was also a merry go round of finances with the RFU claiming responsibility for the community game for everything below international level. Now there has been a substantial settling down. The game does not want to be entirely business orientated – you have to have the spirit of the game as well and this attitude seems to be coming back.

Are you optimistic about the future of rugby?  

I think we have come a long way to stabilise the edifice of rugby but what must happen is a serious programme for looking after the development of the youth – what we call mini rugby. I feel there really needs to be an academy for junior development. There is not enough discipline in place, the equipment is not there, and it is not properly funded; there is no proper training in health and safety, in child minding and management. Then I would like to see a lot more of the finance drop down from the RFU into funding the top 60 clubs of the country, whether they were amateur – semi pro to fully professional, so that they can foster the best players right to the top. They also have to blend their lives in with a career which isn’t just rugby, because when they are 30 they are on the sack heap. Rugby players need to have opportunities for resettlement, so that they can earn a living after rugby. You need a jobs bureau to help with recruitment. That is what we do at Richmond and I feel it should be a general requirement for all clubs.

You also feel strongly about sport at student level?  

Yes, I believe the strength of a university education is so much more rounded when you play in a lacrosse or rugby team; it seems to me that universities are not giving value for money, because team sports are all voluntary organizations, and someone has to leap up to volunteer. So you have these lovely green fields on university campuses and team sports only get played by about 2 or 3 per cent of the students. You can see standards withering on the vine, even in traditional universities like Oxford or Cambridge. The number of people who play rugby is diminishing. And it is the same with most team sports in this country.

In addition to your continuing commitments to rugby, you are Chairman of the country’s biggest stadium cleaning and waste disposal company, Cleanevent. How did that come about?  

It was a chance meeting. I was at a nightclub and an Australian, called Craig, comes over to me, and he asks me if I want to help with a new company Cleanevent.. I asked: ‘What’s the deal?’ He then said he couldn’t pay me very much but would put me on the board – as Chairman, and I discovered I was the only member! It transpired that he had got a meeting arranged at Wimbledon the next day to bid for cleaning the whole club. So we went off together and to my astonishment – this was in 2002 – we won the contract! Since then we’ve got Wembley, Arsenal, most of the major football clubs in M25 area, the Glastonbury and Reading festivals and also the O2 and Roland Garros in Paris. Our earnings were zero when we started now we have a £30 million turnover. Cleanevent has just been taken over by another company, which deals more in catering and laundry, called Spotless, which also means we have gone global, arranging everything from coat hangers to laundry , window cleaning, school and hospital cleaning. And so in addition to the UK, we are engaged in locations in the United States, Dubai, Dohar, Australia and we are bidding very strongly for the 2012 Olympic Games.

And you own Pisarro, a restaurant in Chiswick, west London?  

Yes, this was another chance meeting. I would describe myself as a reluctant restauranteur; ten years ago somebody said ‘I have this wonderful idea for a restaurant, on a very good site.’ I took ten per cent to raise the funds to buy a 25 year lease and thought that was the end of it. I am now the sole owner and have been through lots of thick and thin moments, but again I have also learnt a lot.

Do you have any regrets?  

In retrospect, I think I resigned from the RFU prematurely. I think I should have taken the pressure and pressed on. I was in the right in terms of the direction the game was going and history has proved that. But I might have killed myself. During that formative period the atmosphere was very intense with lots of late nights, too much alcohol and cigars. I probably would have been a less vibrant person than I am now.

What gives you most enjoyment in the day?  

I’ve quickly learnt there is no place for retirement! We all have to go on doing something and I count myself extraordinary lucky in what I have done. But when I am not actually working, I love gardening. I have a lovely garden in Worcestershire on the edge of the Cotswolds and I participate in the National Gardens Scheme by opening the garden to the public. And so I like to go into my garden, I am always tweaking at it, always changing it. I find I am very much at peace in the garden. Whatever you do, the garden is the best antidote for any stress.

Visit National Gardens Scheme http://www.ngs.org.uk. All its profits go to Macmillan nurses, cancer research.