David Cartwright
David Cartwright, 60, left school with five O-Levels, wandered around Europe for a few months and became a fireman. In 1999 he retired as the Assistant Commissioner of the London Fire Brigade; he is now Chairman of the East India Club, St James’s Square in London, co-owner of Cartwright Brothers Vintners Ltd and Boris Johnson’s Mayoral Appointee to the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority.
Interview
With a strong religious background, he discusses influences and ambitions.
Without doubt my father was the most important guiding influence in my life. My grandfather lost his fingers in an industrial accident; my father, who was at a grammar school at the time, was destined for the Church, but because of my grandfather’s accident, he had to cut his education short. During the war he was a conscientious objector – he offered to be a medical officer or non combatant, but he refused to pick up a gun – and ended up in the fire service during the blitz. And so pacifism was a strong influence in our household. What my father gave me was the ability to determine right from wrong and an understanding of the importance of maintaining high personal standards in one’s life. These were very valuable lessons because throughout life you are constantly tested.
And so religious belief became an important aspect of your life?
Although my father was a lay preacher and eventually did become ordained, he never forced religion on me. I think in terms of belief, you have to make up your own mind and anyway in the 1950s, when I was growing up, religion was more de rigueur than it is now. Church, Sunday School, Evensong and Youth Club were regular Sunday activities. And religion certainly gave me an extra dimension to my life, which developed into the belief which I still hold. I have never believed that my life has been mapped out or is in any way pre-ordained, and whether or not I achieve anything while I am here on this earth is entirely up to me. God gives us the freedom and opportunity to say ‘yes’ or ‘no’ to whatever we do. I didn’t recognize it at the time, but I did grow up feeling I was an individual and master of my own destiny.
There were other issues and influences which, as a young teenager affected me deeply – one was Oxfam and the other was the CND movement. Before my father was ordained in 1964, he had met Bertrand Russell, who was big on the national stage in the movement to ban the bomb. As a boy, I had a CND badge and I can recall the Bay of Pigs episode when the United States and the then Soviet Union appeared to be on the brink of war over Cuba – I must have been about 11 years old, and I wrote to the Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, expressing my fears that the world was going to end (he never responded!). Then, later at school, I threw my weight behind Oxfam, setting up a little group to collect money. People would come weekly with a shilling. I really did feel that by this sort of activity we could make a difference. Of course, that isn’t to say that I didn’t get into my fair share of scrapes and trouble as a child.
Another important force in my life was meeting Archbishop Desmond Tutu. During the 1970s, as a member of the World Council of Churches, Tutu was living in London, in my father’s parish and he used to preach at our Church. As you will recall, the apartheid regime of racial segregation in South Africa was still very much in force. But Tutu was never a terrorist; he never advocated anything but a peaceful solution to the problems that existed. In my opinion, if ever you met someone who was a saint, he was and still is. We are still in touch.
And so how did you come to work in the fire brigade?
I’d left school with only five O-levels. What I really wanted to do was travel. I especially wanted to visit the Holy Land but just as I was about to set out, the 1967 war broke out between Egypt and Israel. So I only got as far as Turkey. When I came home, my brother, who was already working in local government, helped me to get a job as a clerical assistant in Westminster City Council. For two years my brain atrophied and I realized office life was not for me. I then thought about joining the police force, but I was tested as colour blind, and so I thought about the fire service, for which my colour blindness was not such an obstacle.
Looking back I wanted a job that was exciting, but I always had a leaning towards public service. I have always been a team player and I am not sure I would have enjoyed the police ethos of dealing with incidents on your own and I really blossomed in the fire brigade. There is something about having come back from a fire, thinking that what we had done was good. Afterwards we would all sit down and have a cup of tea, and then talk about the part we’d all played. I think those conversations afterwards helped to overcome a lot of the strain and stress. It was a sort of group therapy. And you know that you have been part of the success of an operation. It is not a sense of heroism but of collective satisfaction, of a job well done. To be part of a successful operation gives you pride, that pride is worth more than money.
Were there ever particular experiences you learnt from?
The Brixton Riots in 1981. I had never before encountered local people throwing stones, actually to stop us putting fires out. But at that time the hostility against the establishment was so great and we, as an institution, were seen as ‘the opposition’, in the same way as the police. After the riots the Longford Report identified many of the underlying reasons and basically criticized us for institutional racism. It was the time when ‘Red’ Ken Livingstone, who was leader of the Greater London Council before he became Mayor, really was a force for change. He instructed that we look at our organization and we realized there were 7 black firefighters out of 7,000 in London. And so I was tasked with setting up the first equal opportunities unit, which looked at the problems of recruitment of minorities and also of women. Personally, I took a while to come to terms with the idea that firefighting could possibly be done by women. But when I met some of the women who were applying for the job, I had a sort of ‘road to Damascus conversion,’ because they were obviously just as capable of doing the job as men. I had about 2 or 3 years in this unit, which, I believe, seriously did make a difference. Now, in London, about 12 per cent of firefighters come from an ethnic minority background and there are over 250 women. The problem of course was that there was, and still is, enormous political pressure to change overnight, and in this arena it can’t happen. It is much more long term.
As a retired firefighter, you are now Chairman of one of the most prestigious clubs in London, the East India Club, how did that come about?
In 1987, I came in as a guest of a couple of members and fell in love with the place; as I came through the doors, I just thought it was wonderful. It was good fun, people were kind, the staff were great, and the ethos of the club was not just about having been to public school; there was a wonderful mix of lively members. If you stand by the bar, you are willing to chat, but if you are sitting in the corner in an armchair, you obviously want to be left alone, and people respect that; all that appealed to me. One distinguished member was Denis Thatcher who was always by the bar and always welcoming – a great Club man! However, I also saw the need for change, made most obvious to me when my wife and sister-in-law came as guests. My sister-in-law was wearing very expensive culottes and was refused entry until she put on an old club skirt over her culottes. I found that really embarrassing and thought that this was something that needed changing. The other thing was the menu; at that stage if you brought a lady to dine, she was given the choice of brown Windsor soup, and a lump of indeterminate red meat, or nothing. And so I thought I wanted to play a bigger part in the running of the club and put my name forward to the committee, eventually becoming Chairman four years ago. I am immensely proud of the Club, it is vibrant and just as exciting as when I walked in on that first day. The food is now the best in London, and ladies can wear trousers!
Posted by Terri Levin on 19th November, 2009.
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